A question has been asked if anyone read the article on MRSA in the December issue of 'Dogs Today?

The item in 'Dogs Today' was probably a summary of and article in the October 2004 issue of 'Veterinary Times', which carried a report of the death from MRSA of a 10 year-old Samoyed following a 'routine knee operation'.
The owner of the dog has established a wb site: www.pets-mrsa.com to provide further information to pet owners.

Bob Partridge, President of the British Veterinary Hospitals Association,is quoted as saying that there were no MRSA-specific guidelines drawn up at present, but "We do have very strict guidelines about cleanliness and the use of vacuum autoclaves and various other things which are likely to cut down the instance of transmission. I strongly suspect that the cases of MRSA that we see in our pet cases will be because of human activity, rather than originating with the pet" He went on to stress that veterinary hospital procedures were already stringent enough to combat cases of MRSA transmission in pets but said that there would be no complacency on their part.

The Queen Mother Veterinary Hospital at the Royal Veterinary College in London has established routines and isolation procedures to control MRSA, based on the best practice from NHS and private hospitals.

Did you read on Jill's website how the RCVS closed Jill's complaint, that its been put in the hands of the VDS who receive 4000 calls a year to deal with. Do the VDS arrange for vet hospitals to be inspected?. Who does inspect vet hospitals, the BVHA?, who maintains standards of hygeine and staffing levels?. Bob Partridge would say 'there are strict guidelines' but who enforces them, what happens when they are breached?, where can the public inspect those guidelines?, like reports on Vet hospital inspections. From Jill's website it seems that Bella was poorly let down, in so many ways by the veterinary profession. Is Bella the 1st(?) of a new epidemic . Do you think that owners are unreasonable expecting their pets to be kept safe from infection when left at a vets for routine op, or that staff would know how stop diseases spreading.

Why would Mr Partridge be concerned about ET tubes not being sterilised properly in-between patients, when he can say ''there is a good chance for vets acting as carriers of feline leukaemia and spreading it around the cat population by intubating them with ET tubes that have not been properly disinfected'' . When Mr Partridge president BVHA thinks that vet hospitals procedures were already stringent enough to combat MRSA transmission in pets, doesn't that include ET tubes?. Whos having a laugh at the expense of the owner, good for business though, sick pets. (VT pg2 25 Oct 04)

www.pets-mrsa.com. How worried should other owners be?.

5000 human patients die every year from MRSA contracted whilst in NHS Hospitals. This is a major problem, and answers are being sought by medical and veterinary specialists. A patient (human or animal) contracting MRSA is unlikely to be a result of professional misconduct, and probably not professional negligence either. If a scapegoat is to be sought, it is probably Mother Nature, in enabling this strain of S.aureus to develop a resistance to all the commonly used antibiotics, including methicillin. All organisms from prions to primates have an in-built urge to survive as a species.

Interesting science based theory, Blaming Mother Nature, obviously well researched. I thought that lack of hospital cleaners and Matrons always got the blame . For not cleaning, or hand washing. Not to mention indiscriminate use of anti-biotics, in veterinary science ( factory farming etc) as well as human medicine. I suppose Mother Nature is responsible for BSE as well?, what about the last F&M outbreak, no-one noticed all that plastic cutlery in the pig -pen .Where did canine parvo virus come from?. Certainly look forward to the next nasty Mother Nature comes up with, without the help of 'specialists' How common is MRSA in veterinary practices?, perhaps with the new RCVS voluntary practice standards , self-certification scheme has a specially laminated certificate to reassure the public that MRSA or any other nasty pustulant primate isn't allowed in practice.

It was someone else who said : "Nature is red in tooth and claw".
Not all evolutionary progress is to benefit the human race! We share this planet with many other species, all of which have an evolutionary urge to survive. Whenever we drop our guard ('we' including hospital cleaners, nurses, and veterinary surgeons) they seize the opportunity!

Edward Taylor
Are you still as dismissive about the powers of 'Mother Nature' after seeing television footage from Sout-east Asia?

You think that tectonic plate movement is caused by man?. That this horrific event is the same as, poor hygiene, under staffing, minimum wage staffing and the development of 'super-bugs'?.What sort of response is that to concerns about MRSA in veterinary practice. Have you never read Gaia theories? Is that an all purpose response to any question,' its nature's way'? Gore Vidal also had some interesting ideas, about man-kind.

My heart goes out to all those who have lost loved ones in this disaster. I hope everyone contributes in some way, to one the relief funds.

Edward,
We seem to be talking at cross purposes.

Did anyone read the report in the press about an article in last week's
'Lancet' describing cases of MRSA in intensive care units with 'barrier nursing' to try and provide maximum possible prevention of infection?

The cost of such precautions is considerable, and well beyond what almost any veterinary practice or veterinary hospital could possibly provide.

If a pet does acquire an MRSA infection, do not always blame the vet.

Just caught up with Jill Moss website www.pets-mrsa.com, and it seems the RCVS is impressed with how informative it is. Shouldn't it be the other way around, the highly trained supposedly highly educated veterinary profession informing the general public?.

Jill Moss website www.pets-mrsa.com, check it out for recent up-dates., information on MRSA

In human hospitals, many people are tested to see whether they carry MRSA - apparently it can localise in a surgical wound by transport from the blood stream if you already carry the bacterium. You do not need to catch it from a surgeon or ward staff. People who are having elective surgeries such as hip replacements are put off if they carry MRSA until they have had a clear swab. So even though many problems are caused by poor hygiene, it would appear that MRSA will continue to be a problem even in hospitals with the most stringent hygiene protocols.

As an aside, many cases (but not all) of MRSA in animal patients have been linked to an owner having already developed an MRSA infection before their pet was treated. This is known as reverse zoonosis, where animals catch disease from people. So if you carry MRSA without knowing it you could unwittingly transmit it to your pet. Most of the infections in veterinary hospitals seem to be caused by staph intermedius rather than staph aureus or, in more serious cases, pseudomonas infection. According to most surgical textbooks, an acceptable level of infection is 2% where high levels of sterility exist. When you think about it, this is pretty high, but if this is the level expected in teaching institutions, what hope for both medical and veterinary practitioners with less advanced facilities?

If MRSA does push the professions forward in terms of facing up to the challenge of nosocomial infections, where to next? As Walter pointed out, the adaptability of microorganisms is not limited - there will always be a tougher, more virulent bug around the corner waiting to find the weakness in our defences against it.

A very useful contribution. Thank you.

Walter, how about Jill Moss's letter in Mar 14th 05 Vet Times, letters page isn't that a useful contribution?. www.pets-mrsa.com have a look vets might learn something.

Great website on MRSA, www.pets-mrsa.com.

I am sure that Ms Moss's letter will have been read, but MRSA is not as easily controlled as one may think, See some of ther items above.
W

Very interesting discussion
My website now has a forum which you could contribute to if you like

After long talks with the RCVC,BVA,BSAVA and DEFRA - what I would like to see on my website is vets discussing this issue - in the forum you can remain anonymous

Bella's cultures showed she had the human strain of mrsa in her wound, the microbiology lab taking cultures believe the vet perfrorming the operation was colonised (I am not by the way- neither are my family who have all been tested) it only takes a sneeze or cough and no mask.

Why do some vets still not mask up?
should'nt owners know to ask for masks and gowns even if it means paying extra, should'nt we expect our beloved pets to get the best possible care?

Maybe some vets could come into the forum and discuss some of these issues

Look at www.thebellamossfoundation.com

Expect to see us at many veterinary conferences in the near future
read our mission statement and if you are a vet CONTRIBUTE to pets-mrsa.com (perhaps with a success story of how you have treated staph or how you prevent mrsa occuring in your practice

Many thanks and keep talking!

Jill Moss

I would be very interested to know how many cases of MRSA have been positively identified in veterinary practice.
Does anyone know?
Walter Beswick

Thats the million dollar question. If vets don't mask up for op's, can they really going to be asked to find out which staph has caused that nasty post op infection?. Are vets going to start testing for virus shedders?. MRSA has supposidly been known of in vet practices for years, pre Jill Moss. Don't you already have the figures?.

I do not think that anyone has the figures.
My experience is that post-op infections are rare in veterinary practice - and I carried out surgery under 'clean' but not 'aseptic' conditions for many years. I never 'masked up', and to the best of my belief never saw a case of MRSA.
WB

We should be talking about prevention and learning lessons about the spread of staph from every avenue of research available

and on this subject Myself and Professor David Lloyd (RCV) will be appearing together on the couch on GMTV Tuesday 29th March between 6.00 - 8.00 am. Next week a national newspaper will be running an exclusive on pets and mrsa and highlighting the Bella Moss Foundation. We want to work with the veterinary profession not against them
sponser research and conferences, raise awareness and most importantly help save lives.

why not visit www.thebellamossfoundation.com

Vets please join my forum we need your input
www.pets-mrsa.com you can remain anonymous

Research needs to be done in looking at the levels of colonisation amongst healthy animals and I am getting sponsership interest to support this project which I believe is crucial to giving a clear idea of the level of the problem that the veterinary world may face in future years

My wesbite www.pets-mrsa.com is hearing from owners with infected and colonised dogs - I am asking the owners to be swabbed to see if there is a link and out of all of the CONFIRMED cases only ten owners of infected or colonised pets are colonised themselves which I find interesting.
I thought that Stap Intermedius found it difficult to colonise a canine
so how are these animals becoming colonised if the owners are not?

Post op infections
Bella was misdiagnosed with rejection of suture material following cruciate ligament repair, this misdiagnosed rejection theory cost her life, 20 owners of dogs have contacted me and their vets have told them their pets are rejecting suture material following surgery on anbdomens and ligaments
I have suggested they ask for swabs to determine mrsa and what do you think happened?

15 of them came back positive with mrsa

So how many vets are considering infected wounds to be possible staph infections?

It would be incredibly surprising if there are any figures relating to fatal post-op infections for the simple reason there is no real motivation to record or collect them. The culture and tradition of animal care has always been to collect figures on diseases in food animals rather than pets; food animals are a national reource and so the stock needs to be protected, but pets are the property of the individual with no intrinsic value, hence, it has never been thought useful to collate causes of death. Until MRSA in pets becomes a notifiable disease (and there's precious little chance of that) the likelihood is that the reporting of cases of MRSA in pets will fall to owners who are (un)lucky enough find out for themselves.

Knocked it on the head there, vets attitude to pets... they have no intrinsic value ... so what if a few die....as long as we get the owners to pay up. Who needs to really bother that much ......yup it sure is (un) lucky that owners are now sussing what those 5 years at vet school is all about. Roll on the day that pet insurance includes legal cover to protect owners from vets who can't be asked to 'gown up' or be clean . What do you all mean , its a 50p ferret?.
ps F&M waz a bit of a major cock-up vet wise..........for controllng disease spread. Loads of plastic cutlery in some pig farmers swill feed not that obvious, that nothing could have been done, not really the motivation there.

For too long vets have ignored, or been ignorant of, the dangers of mrsa. I knew Bella, Jill's lovely Samoyed, having treated her with acupuncture for many months before her untimely loss. Jill's tragic experience is just the tip of a very nasty iceberg. Only today a new client mentioned, almost in passing, that her dog had contracted mrsa after an operation at a Veterinary College close to me (luckily making a full recovery from the infection).

Jill has presented our profession with a wake up call which now cannot be ignored. I would urge every pet owner to ask their veterinary practice if they are aware of the dangers of mrsa: if not, why not; and if they are, what they are doing about it.

Richard Allport BVetMed, VetMFHom, MRCVS

OK, Richard, let us into the secret of how a homoeopathic veterinary surgeon would treat MRSA?
WB

'Homoeopathic vet' is popular usage and everyone knows what it means.
So, why are not all the hospitals losing thousands of patients a year not using Manuka honey?

I am sorry that due to a glitch the MRSA thread has been transferred to 'HOW'
Please continue the thread under MRSA.
Walter

In reply to William Jones' contribution on the 'HOW'thread about MRSA - is he suggesting that only 'veterinary surgeons practising homoeopathy' (to be pedantic) do all the highly desirable things that he suggests?
Many 'conventional' veterinary surgeons not practising homoeopathy would be very upset by that suggestion, including the University Veterinary Schools, of which I do not know any that use homoeopathic treatments routinely.
Walter